Look everyone.. the definition was carved in stone by KarmaGirl and further chisled in granite by Jafo. MUST this drivel continue!!!  

I mentioned in my comments on whitefire2 WB that nobody need my approvals if they would like to do anything to make the suite bigger, I only request them to let me see it prior of releasing it if and only if he/she will be using any part of my original work. Some of the artist actually does that. And I do have the right as the original artist to put this request.

Some artist,who did not use any of my work, just send it over to me just to ask for my comment on it and If I can help suggesting something to make their work better. And that my friends IMHO is a community work. The respected artist get some guide to improve his/her skills and the community as a whole get better quality skin/artwork etc etc. Dont you think?.

The answer is pretty simple...but decidely not 'clear'(that they are not).  

No one was more suprised than Vstyler and I that Harmony was being touted as a 'community' project.Nothing that I know of from Maxstyles has ever been promoted by us as a community project.Our core group of skinners obviously gets first crack at contributing...but certainly under no obligation to provide complimentary skins for everything we do for the simple reason...we cant afford to commission work from them...yet.  (it would be unfair to MAKE them do it for nothing) 

 But since vStyler asked a few handpicked skinners to help out,they have the option of producing their own skins for sale even tho they dont yet have master status here at Winc.

Even tho they are part of the Maxstyles group,everyone of us is a part of this community too...and any quality windowblind(pay or free) is gonna take on a 'community' aspect all on its own.(which brings on an even more communical aspect from the contributions from skinners outside the core)

What Zoomba is doing by promoting the work of more and more artist is great...I love it...I think he should continue to do so whether it be free or with a (single)pay skin at its core.

If the word community is the issue,fine,I agree,its misleading to call anything we do a community project...never were.But there isnt a thing wrong with promoting a pay skin exactly as such...while also acknowledgeing the efforts of the rest.(did you expect Zoomba to mention just the free stuff but make no reference to the initial inspiration for all those skins?)  

By your strict definition of community skin,my friend Night train's Citrium skin wasnt a commnity skin.(correct me if I am wrong)But quality inspires the group effort and it became a community effort.  

So it seems(to me),in your demanding way,you really just want the site to conform to your views(again) while making Maxstyles(and by extension,ZOOMBA)look bad.You should cut Zoomba some slack...I dont think he was even aware of Harmony's status as a pay theme...tho that only matters as it pertains to the label 'Community skin'.

On that,I agree...we never asked for it or wanted it...the exposure was fine and dandy...maybe Zoomba just needs to call these group efforts something else...I would.  
So was Harmony a 'community skin'?Nah,not in my view...was it a community effort?...you bet!  

Wrong...and right ,sorta...

even community efforts require the originating authors approval if thats the way they want it.

If I started a 'true' community project,based on my ideas and graphics,...you can bet I will retain full control over final say in what is included...even if the initial offer was open to all.Dont agree?...dont sign up.(yes,I'm a hard bastard to work with...just ask Webgizmos,Bilbo and Puter dude Jim)  

and messiah1   

Don't ask me because the bastard won't retyurn my calls!!    

I wouldn't exactly call you a bastard to work with...just a hard taskmaster that wants things to match...nothing wrong with that! And it also pushes people to better their own skills which is a good thing in the end result.

Yep, that was exactly my thought when I read Zoomba's original article at the time.

So while a agree with Karma's and Jafo's definition, I think naming a non-free skin a community project was initially just an error on behalf of the poster. I don't think he even knew that the WB was available off-site only at the time of posting.



It is not as long as all the other master skinners get the same kind of publicity for their Master-skins.
As an example: A Master-skin plus a free cursor would qualify as a community-suite (two or more skinners at work) and get a "news"-article on WC as a promotion. Another master releases a mini-suite but did all the work himself. This doesn't qualify as a community project and does not get any publicity?

As was mentioned before: Harmony was not labelled community-skin by the authors of the suite. But I hope that WC will draw up some guidelines as how to handle these things in the future, as they obviously lead to some discontent in the community.

I did not want it this debate dared to join the discussion, about it only envy bears young, and ruins friendships. Maybe the reason that Harmony is community effort, but Whitefire community skin. It disturbs many people, into Zoomba pick up that. This is because of that drawn ones with an very highest quality. John and Jazlan never publish semi-finished skin (and many other author not publish too). We who we added our own works to it, of the community their act. And we catch it then is...call it anything.

peace better than war..

No one said the Masters should be excluded from any Community Projects - but I continue to disagree on the definition of what is a Community Project if you have to purchase the main component.

I have accepted from day one that Masters were allowed to sell their skins. I never had a problem with that at all. But lots did as I recall.

To me if I see a big announcement on the front page about a ' community ' effort I would expect it to be free and if not - then it should be stated as such.



Which was exactly my point. You never called it a Community Project at all. The windowblind wasn't even available at the time that the article was on the front page.
So you get a bunch of people clicking on all the links and downloading all the associated ' free' skins to the Harmony blind and then in the end they find out they can't have the windowblind unless they pay for it at another site. If I were a visitor I'd be pissed off. If I knew before I started downloading the free portions then at least I was informed Id be paying for something at the end. To not inform people they will be required to pay for some aspect of this " Community " project is misleading.

So call it a Community project if thats what you want but at least advertise it properly so people will know what to expect. The term ' Community ' skin gives a way different impression...

There are alot of views here. I think the mods should truly look at the term "community skin" and either change the status quo or make up new terms. It stops confusion and everyone is a winner.

variations of skins/suite classification/types.


1.Private skins. where only one artist or Team like TSF etc make the skin/suite

2. Closed community skins. where a selected group or teams get together and build a skin, while not advertising it to the public til it's release.

3. Open community skins. Where it is advertised to the general public and all who offer up can take part...or a skinner is chosen for each suite element, from the offers.

4.the envelopment of Master skins in to the "Community skins" has been a new twist on the two "community skin" types. as now there are "Community Master suite/skins" (open and closed). Ie a part or all of the suite/skin are of Master status and for purchase..


This is the way I have understood the skin classifications to be for years..If I am wrong, so be it....


There is a difference between a community skin/suite and a skin with a port or two. typically a community skin/suite is comprised of a group of skinners in collaboration and built upon as a combined suite/skin.. the latter is a where another skinner a ported widget etc or two, of an other artists skin and uploads it to compliment the original...not collaborated effort...



As for the animosity?? there should be none.. It was a valid question, as not everyone is familiar with the terminology of all aspects of skinning...While the question could have been better worded. The question still held merit...





now im off to reminisce.. ahh H.E. the King of Community skins...

I have been sitting here thinking about this whole discussion and what I see is it's a matter of semantics. Ask three people the definition of a word and you will get three different meanings of the same word.   Words are very powerful they define who we are. Belonging to this community we all have different views; that is what makes this community GREAT!!! I have really enjoyed reading everyones opinions on this subject. But...in every community there are guidelines we must all follow whether we agree with them all or not. Otherwise there would be total chaos and anarchy. Thank You very much to our fine mods; they keep us in check. I do believe that seabass and Jaffo have given all of us a clear understanding of the guidelines on this subject. Everything else is semantics which I have enjoyed reading.    

btw One last thing WC did not choose us; we chose it!!! guidelines are guidelines they are in every aspect of our world.     

Jafo squeaks from the sidelines...."I only have one 'f'" .....

Which is why guidelines need to be clear and precise.

The introduction of Master skins has changes the guidelines. I see nothing wrong with asking for clarification nor do I see anything wrong with voicing my opinion about this.

I try to contribute and I support this site as best I can.

WC may not have chosen 'us' but without the 'us' what would WC have ?

It would just be another site selling 'stuff'